Do nurses get paid enough and if not, why not?

7 years 3 months ago #5942 by Rackstraw6978
I cannot actually believe what I am reading! People on these wages in this day and age!
We are a small practice, but our lowest nurses wage is £13p/h, and highest £14.50p/h. Our principal also takes us on courses regularly and out for lunches now and again.
I love where I work and feel even more lucky after reading this!

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7 years 7 months ago #5725 by Ekw
Hi there

I feel I am very lucky in my wages, as a senior working in hospital setting (yes under the AFC with super annuation) I get currently £26556 a year my top wage is £27500(ish) I pay my own courses and GDC. All DNs start on around 18000 up to just over 21000 then if you become senior you move to the next pay band. It is supposed to be fair for all in this but even this causes issues as some DNs are career minded and gain post grad certificates, management courses and want move forward while for some it is "just a job" so while those girls get paid the same their passion and Interest is not the sAme.
As a previous nurse commented that nurses in community and hospital don't "graft" as much as a nurse in practice I think was a bit harsh I work up to 40hours a week (only contracted 37.5) and even though my clinic will have less patients booked I am still nursing the sAme, I can spend 3 hours doing an RCT with a microscope and MTA as a surgical but I wouldn't consider me not working as hard, we have alot of Nhs wide paperwork to fill out before we even clean in the morning and are spot checked by the principal every week, I think every location will have their own workloads and we will all feel like we work harder than someone else. Some colleagues I work with feel they have it harder as they feel they work with the more difficult patients a GDP won't attempt. I think we all have our own work politics going on, wages for GDP nurses should be higher but I don't think itl ever be as easy as just striking as owners have to be able to afford these wages and I don't think all practices could possibly cope with this request. (even though it would be nice) itl take some kind of help from government I think but maybe things will change.
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7 years 7 months ago - 7 years 7 months ago #5718 by judyfholmes
Yeah, Its true that dental nurses have to work long hours on low pay scale. General dentistry is very vast field and not only limited to dentist or dentist nurses so, I think we should do some additional courses like dental hygiene or dental assistant as it will increase our value and hence pay scale.

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10 years 5 months ago #986 by Toots
After reading through all the posts I feel positively well off. My employer pays my ARF and that of all the dental nurses. Our indemnity is on his so is free to us. Only downside to not having own indemnity is if we have a dispute between us, Dental Defence League will defend him not me.

BADN is a waste of space. Pam Swain the secretary has never worked as a dental nurse. Many years ago when I asked her outright why the pay scale they were recommending for dental nurses at the time( we are talking 1996) was so low she told me it was because that is what the dentists would accept. They may have changed the pay scale but don't seem to be doing much to fight the dental nurses corner. She also told me that the BADN would not defend me in any dispute with my employer. I pointed out that this was what a trade union was suppose to do to which I received no response. Things are different now because all members automatically get indemnity insurance.

I think employers should pay dental nurses ARF as they are on low income and also promotes loyalty to the practice. I have worked as a dental nurse for 23 years. 21 years at the same practice.

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10 years 6 months ago #915 by CES21
i don't even earn that and i work a 40 hour week!

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10 years 6 months ago #912 by Unthanka
I agree with you Vms118 we need need to go on strike or something, they need to realise that without us they couldnt work.

It says that the average dental nurse earns between 17k - 20k?
Ummm... only in London!
On average the dental nurse earns between 12k - 15k!

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10 years 6 months ago #901 by Vms118
We definitely should be paying a much lower ARF than general nurses. But RGN's have a union, if the GMC even suggested upping their ARF to the same proportion as ours is as compared to our wage, their union would prevent it - by organising mass strikes and demonstrations. And the public would give a dam, because they care about their general health.

Victorus Aut Mortis.

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10 years 6 months ago - 10 years 6 months ago #890 by chloesheppard
Hi,
Reading through this lot's of vailid points here.
An earlier point brought up about general nursing more pressure and responsibility, I agree but surely we should be paying a lower ARF than them then?
Sorry but I just found out about the new ARF :(

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10 years 6 months ago #882 by Nerd
Hello again, well said Claire I agree with you!!!

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10 years 6 months ago #880 by ClaireLGDawes
From my personal experience, the only dental nurses that get paid well are CDS or hospital based nurses. I have 2 friends who work in hospital and neither of them seem to have the same crazy, hetic days that nurses in practice do.They are both paid fantastic wages for less graft!!! AND they get super-an pension!!!! What do us general practice nurses get.............

Low wages, longer working hours, harder graft and no pension!!!!!

Dont get me wrong I love my job, its my life but if i had known where I would this far into my career at the very beginning I would have never became a dental nurse. I have put a lot of hard work into my career and my job satisfaction is from patients nothing more, it is definately not from true praise or appriciation. We forget we are only an employee, nothing more. If a principle had a choice to pay us more or spend more we all know which they would choose, and it wouldn't be us.

Dentistry is a business, a business to make money for the owner.

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10 years 6 months ago #879 by lavalette
I think that we will never ever get the £30,000 you are on about.

But I was speaking to a friend of mine who is a doctors receptionist and a few years ago they were enrolled on to the super-anuation scheme. As dental nurses we were supposed to as well but for some reason we were not.

My boss knows that the wage I get is low, but I know that I will never get a decent wage increase. But he has always said that dental nurses should have been enrolled on superan. And I agree with him. We should look to the future and protect ourselves this way. Superan at the moment is one of the better pensions going.

I never got the full details as to why we did not get superan and who in there wisdom stopped it from going through. Any thoughts anyone.

Personally I would fight for superan rather than a pay rise in this current climate.

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10 years 6 months ago #876 by Vms118
Very true. What do you mean by "getting into Dental Therapy is utopic!"? is utopic one of these new fandangled words i'm not aware of lol

Victorus Aut Mortis.

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10 years 6 months ago #867 by Nerd
I have worked as a DN since 2000 and max pay of £8.50 before tax, I love my job and the pt and I would love to do it forever.... But unfortunately I have to buy a house and have a life, I work so hard and fell so frustrated, I wish the BADN or other bodies could put their words forward to help us, because there are lots of DN that would be willing to work for less than me and its just not fair. I have to pay for all my courses and registrations and I dont really want to study for anithing else not dental, getting into Dental Therapy is utopic! I just wanted to be able to be a nurse with extra duties, but a happy one a respected one.

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10 years 6 months ago #866 by Vms118
Great, now due to national minimum wage changes today we are even worse off by 13p - in terms of standard of living vs profession. Amazing.

Victorus Aut Mortis.

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10 years 6 months ago #864 by Palfrey
Looking at all the comments, it seems like that alot of DN's are frustrated and furious with all these legal requirements and legislations. I think we should all get together as one and put something to the houses of parliment, stating basic salary £30k plus sick pay, courses paid for and also registration and indeminity. These principles earn so much money and they cannot reward there staff !!!! I would have to say that they are the worst sector to work for. Most of the nurses work long hours and work really hard, however they dont get paid well or even treated with respect.
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10 years 6 months ago - 10 years 6 months ago #853 by Vms118
I have not read the T&C's for a while but by memory it would depend on who you are with. Different indemnifying co.'s have varying terms and types of cover.

Victorus Aut Mortis.

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10 years 6 months ago #850 by rhianp
just a quick question would anything happen if your insurance lapsed and you hadn't realised?
it's not happened but just a thought.

:)

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10 years 6 months ago #841 by Vms118
Ah the wonders of the internet and anonymity..... Alas, unless any sort of list/record is vetted it cannot be considered reliable and impartial so anonymity in any sort of list would be redundant. You may as well just create a list of all the practices and hospitals in the UK, as it is impossible in life to please everyone and there will always be complaints of one sort or another about all practices.

Victorus Aut Mortis.

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10 years 6 months ago #833 by Gooders
Yea....but the majority of DN's would be speaking the truth! But not do-able as dentists and practice owners would go running to the GDC. Potentially dentists and practice owners could sue individuals for defamation. Dentists IMO are a sneaky bunch and they would make sure a DN couldn't work in their region again.

I think I've only met One DN in my 16 years of nursing, who was happy with their employer in every aspect......pay, conditions, work load, training, etc..... Just one DN. Thats just shocking to me.

I'm like Marmite, you'll either love me or hate me.

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10 years 6 months ago #832 by Vms118
That sounds like a great idea Gooders. Imagine, a name and shame list for practices that pay DN's as if they were unskilled labour. Would they continue to pay DN's badly knowing they were on the list?

No matter how good, this of course would not actually be do-able as every cross DN would be reporting their previous employers lol

Victorus Aut Mortis.

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10 years 6 months ago #831 by Gooders
I moved back to the east midlands two years ago after living in London for 10 years. Down south I worked at two central London hospitals rather than in practice.
I thought all the experience and knowledge gained, I wouldn't have a problem getting a practice job in the east midlands. How wrong was I? One surgery claiming to be the region's leading implant clinic, the principal boasted to me at the interview to be grossing £1 million PA.....yet salary wise......all he coukd manage was £8.80ph!!
I've heard worse in the East midlands tho....one practice owner offering spa days, horse riding, et lessons rather than pay rises! The lowest I've heard in the East midlands is one practice offering literally minimum wage yet wanting qualified DN's.
I'd love to name and shame principals, practice owners and Dentists.

I'm like Marmite, you'll either love me or hate me.
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10 years 6 months ago #827 by Vms118
It is refreshing to see some fellow DN's facing up to facts - at the moment you are likely better off out of than in the profession. I see it going one of two ways. Either practice owners will see the shortage coming and start treating DCP's appropriately. Or, the career as a whole will become infamous for being high stress, high risk and low payed like so many other careers have. I personally think things will get a lot worse before they get better, just look at the GDC no's for registrations this year. If I remember correctly - just under 4000 nurses did NOT reregister with the GDC. Conclusion, either a lot for people are changing jobs or a lot of people are fed up with the high fees and are working illegally. And if DN's are working illegally, what is going to happen? Nout. Nothing. Nada. The GDC simply does not have the man power to contact and visit each and every practice that has a DN that did not reregister this year. So who looses out? The people who paid the £98.00 to actually work legally.

Victorus Aut Mortis.

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10 years 6 months ago #823 by Gooders
Its never going to happen. I refuse to push myself as DN anymore. Patients and Dentists treat DN's like sh*t IMO. I'm planning on retraining in a completely different field. I also think NHS dentistry will be finished/over within the next 2 years. My experience of the public and NHS dentistry of late...makes me feel the public do not deserve to have NHS dentistry.

I'm like Marmite, you'll either love me or hate me.

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10 years 6 months ago #822 by missie
I think that we are under paid and unsurpported by employers. at the moment the
BADN have published dental nurse salary guide lines. This is a hell of a lot more than a lot of us nurses are on .This should surely have to mean something.
I think since the changes were made for registration and cpd we are now classed as professional people and should have a professional pay packet !!!
I do agree that it is time to stand tall and be heard , it's time to make a difference. :kiss:

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10 years 6 months ago #820 by rhianp
with regards to the GDC... they are there to regulate DCP'S and protect patients...at the end of the day sadly they are not there for us.

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10 years 6 months ago #818 by Veena
I've just been reading through all the articals on this topic and it seems that a majority of the nurses are not happy and underpaid. I've been working as a dental nurse for 14 years, started off at a NHS pracrice then worked my way up to private practice in central london. No matter how experienced you are, how many qualifications you have and also how many courses/lectures you have been to you will never be appreciated by your employer. You wil not get the bonus, pay rise or even appreciated any more when you come back with some good ideas.

The clinic where i am now, pays really well, everyone is really nice , the hours are long however i am appreciated alot more by the dentist and other members of staff. The only down side i would have to say is that i dont get paid sick pay or have any courses paid for. On the positive side it's a nicer enviroment to work in.

I've worked at top London dental practice and most of you would think wow well paid job, well guess what girls for 42 + hours i was getting paid peanuts !!!!! I never complained, done what i was told, worked everyday all day without complaining and also went in when i was poorly. Still was not appreciated. Finaly came to my sense and left after 5 years of what i call slave labour, however the good side of working at the clinc was that it looked good on my resume and also i met some really nice people who i still keep in touch with.

With all this ARF/CPD/indeminity i have now come to the conclusion you are better off working in a different field where you would get a bonus and also not have to worry about anyone complaining against you (patients).

Good luck to all who have recently qualified, enjoy DN :)

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10 years 7 months ago #796 by Gooders
I can't see any GDP's paying their dental nursing staff a living wage anytime soon. And as for the BADN there about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. So don't hold your breath that their be doing anything to get Dental nurses pay increased nationally. Its all very well them producing a recommendation but thats just it.....a recommedation. Maybe we need a new union? Some competition for BADN?

I'm like Marmite, you'll either love me or hate me.

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10 years 8 months ago #759 by lavalette
Showed my boss the article and asked him what he thought.

Never seen him laugh so much.

Told him he could make his own tea from now on.

But youre right if we did not like the job we wold not be there.

God were mugs.

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10 years 8 months ago #757 by KLKennedy
I don't know anyone who gets that, well, that I'm aware of. But let's face it, if we didn't enjoy the job we wouldn't still be in it after all these years! It is a pain that we don't get pay which recognises our skills, but maybe we need to lobby the likes of the BADN to help fight for a better pay for DNs. It's a start if nothing else.... :unsure:

Kirsty

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10 years 8 months ago #756 by lavalette
O MY GOD!!!!

I have just been reading the little Dental Nursing Newsletter that came through today.

It says a RDN should be earning £2400 and a senior DN £2800. No way on earth do I get that and I also never will. I am just above basic minimum wage and that is with a five and a ten year bonus added in. And 25 years experience. Does any one out there get that. No dont tell me I dont wont to know. I might do something stupid.

Its been raining everyday here for two weeks and it is getting colder now. Double-dip recession on the way vat increase and 0.5 interest rates what am I doing here?

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10 years 8 months ago #725 by KLKennedy
Yeah, I know, Jadey. Sad thing is, you're left to do it all while i'm off. Like I said to him a couple of weeks ago, just show some appreciation..... Think we definitely need to set up our own wee network in our area, especially for GDP nurses as we're the lowest paid. Also could do with the BADN fighting DNs corner more on the whole wages front. We're now classed as professionals, so it's about time we were treated as such. :unsure:

Kirsty

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10 years 8 months ago #721 by jaitchison
well said kirsty!! its just not fair we are so underpaid and underappreciated! love my job but begginning to feel that maybe i would be better of doing something else?? its ashame but our wages do not reflect all the hard work and committment we put in. :(

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10 years 8 months ago #719 by KLKennedy
I've been a dental nurse for 13yrs, now I earn £10 an hour, been qualified 10 yrs, also have my OHE qualification. I also do a lot of work that would be the Practice Manager's role, but I'm not the PM. I've had to fight for what I get where I work, although if I worked for the health board, their trainees get paid what I do. Compared to some I'm well paid. Us full timers (where I work) already work at least 40hrs a week, but our employer wants to up our working hours. It'd just be nice to be appreciated for the work we do, the skills & risks involved. One of our dentists admitted to me last week, he had tried aspirating & found it more difficult than it looked! Uh huh & that's just a bobby basic of our job!! My employer actually asked me what I did when I go in to set up! So I explained it all to him, he had no idea it took so much to get a practice running & organised for a day! So show it, I say!!

Kirsty

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10 years 11 months ago #251 by cazsheru
Hi,

We certainly don't get paid enough..!!!! I have just newly qualified(16th March).
However I worked as a dental nurse for 7 years (unqualified) in the days when it didn't really matter...
As I see it I still have that experience behind me even though I was out of the dental world for 18 yrs...
After going back to college and retraining.. I am receiving a measley £6.00 an hour!!! only 20p more than what I was on as a trainee, not exactly an incentive.... I do nursing and reception duties as well as Coshh updating (took months!) etc...I do jobs the other nurses could not do!! I am waiting for an update from my manager on a pay rise but have heard other nurses are getting about 78p more.. woo can't wait!!.its shocking!!! We have become very quiet as patients are leaving to go to NHS and we are private,,this is the excuse we have been given for lack of pay?
My college assessor has told me about trainees getting £10 an hour in the same area.,,
I am very disgruntled...it is so unfair...

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10 years 11 months ago #142 by Vms118
The discussion isn't about enjoyment...but I do know what you mean - the old addage comes to mind -

"If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten."

Thats why I am like so many in this career. In it to get to where I want to go. Means to an end. :)

And I'm glad you have enjoyed it so much. Confucius oncec said "Find a job you love and you will never work a day in your life. " :cheer:

Victorus Aut Mortis.

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10 years 11 months ago #141 by Louise
I have been nursing for 22 years,mainly in the private sector,well for the last 20 years.
I have worked with some great dentists and we have shown mutual espect for each other.I do not understand where the negativity comes from ,if you do not enjoy what you are doing then don`t do it.

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10 years 11 months ago #108 by Vms118
Sadly, I believe the first sentence in your post explains the reason why you are still happy :P

Victorus Aut Mortis.

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10 years 11 months ago - 10 years 11 months ago #107 by stacey
I am a newly qualified DN + I really enjoy my job day to day. However I feel that we are seriously under appreciated I think that there should be some sort of national pay scale rather than dentists being able to pay whatever they like (as long as its over national minimum wage) and DN's having to negotiate their pay. I think that as we are expected to behave in a professional manner and be registered we should accordingly be treated as the professionals we are! From my experience dentists seem to be v. greedy (my bosses are anyway) and are happy for DN's to be underpaid and overworked while still expecting v. high standards from us. I hope that there will be change during my career as although I enjoy my job a lot of the other DN's in my work seem to be unhappy with their jobs and I dont want to find myself in that position in a few yrs time!

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10 years 11 months ago - 10 years 11 months ago #95 by hstuchfield
i also think its low pay for a qualifed and registered job, but i knew that before i decided to become a DN.
Lets hope for a rise when we all become a rariety as apparently 4,000 nurses didnt reregister this last year. :huh:

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10 years 11 months ago #93 by Twiki
Hope i havent offended anyone but after today and the dentist just idily sitting back arms folded while i got everything out when i have to work round him to get it it jsut plain rude!!

And a recent update to dental nurse course, they now only have to do 1 year course, ridiculous. NEBDN need to sort out which course is best to get all the knowledge into and out of the dental nurse and stop changing the courses.

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11 years 5 hours ago #77 by Vms118
All good points.

@kf27 - your point is very valid. RGN's get paid more for a reason. Job is much harder and takes much more skill, the training is much longer and harder also to my knowledge.

@Hay_Zee - we do not get near enough credit for our hard work, your correct. such is life I guess? However, the reason they would not know where anythng is because that is not their job - thier main concern should be clinical issues not organisational ones i'd say :S IN regards to courses duration, it'simportant to remember course content is more important and diffeent institutions actually change the time - mind took 2 years! it took forever.... :(

@Louise - None of my opinions are inteneded to be provocative or are intended to cause offense, and also don't forget I am talking about my own career too...I'm just being realistic :dry:

Victorus Aut Mortis.

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11 years 7 hours ago #76 by Louise
I find that quite insulting !
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11 years 18 hours ago #74 by Twiki
Can i just say an 18 month course is not 1 year!!!
It is hard work becoming a dental nurse, yes not as hard a general nursing but we have to know a darn site more than we're given credit for.
We shouldnt necessarily be going for post qualifications to get a better pay, times need to change and we need to be recognised as a major part of the dental team, lets face it, do the dentists see themselves growing that extra pair of hands they are always moaning at us about?
The couldnt even tell you where anything is.
A dental nurses union or something needs to be brought about for us to be taken seriously. They will be up s**t creek without a paddle without us.
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11 years 23 hours ago #70 by kf27
iI do agree wityh you in a way.
Anyone can become a dental nurse. One year of a part time course and there you go, "a qualified dental nurse is born". Its sad, but its true. Im a qualified general nurse from abroad, but never practiced it here 'cos at the time the adaptation period was 3k and I simply did not have it. So I went for detal nursing instead. I thought about going back to general nursing nut to be honest, I haven't got the balls to do it now as it's been so long since i done it. But basically, what im trying to say here, no offence to dental nurses (im one of them remember) but there is a lot more involved in general nursing, a lot more studying, and sometimes peoples lives depends on you. Therefore, eventhou dental nursing registration might be more expensive, our wages are not that good.
And good for all you girls, who want to carry on gaining their further post cert.qualifications. This is the only way forward. Othewise we'll never earn decent money.
Dental hygiene and therapy is something to consider if we ever want to be taken seriously.
Just my personal opinion

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11 years 1 day ago #69 by colette
DNs definately dont get paid well enough. Its a tough job with a lot of extras and responsibilities. We need to be more recognised as professionals and get more respect aswell as fair salaries! :)

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11 years 1 day ago #68 by Vms118
Yes, Considering the costs, health risks and stress - DN's get paid very badly.

I think this will never change. Sad but I think true. You could argue that this is because unlike hospitals that are nationally funded and (usually) thoroughly inspected, dental practices are very spread out and independent. No matter how much the GDC looms and sends out gazzettes they never really seem to fo anything unless complaints are made to them.
I feel these factors make it very easy for canny business minded practice owners to hire untrained staff who accept the low pay as part of their job or simply resign. And therefore replace said untrained leaver with a similar person. And besides we need to face the fact that we ARE Very replaceable. Dentists, doctors and RGN's are not easily replaceable (to an extent) because they have all gone through rigorous and official training to even be considered for a position. Whereass...let's face facts, you could walk from a cash register to the surgery. My nurse trainer said it best "a monkey could do this job" (but not necassarily do it well)

Agree? Disagree? Am I missing something? :cheer:

Victorus Aut Mortis.

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11 years 2 days ago #33 by MLA
Hi again...
The first thing we need to think about
Who wants to work for "Us"?
Initially we will need people willing to get into the all the laws , rules and regulations.All the costs for qualifications, and post qualifications.
Then we need to establish what are we all earning today?
There are a few differences, as some are working in a dental hospital, some as Temporary dental nurses ,some private and some NHS.
When we have done that, we know where we stand.
Then we need to value the job we are doing.That means WHAT are we actually doing?(this could be VERY interesting!)
It will be difficult to work that out, but without anything substantial, we can't be seen as serious.(Do our homework is possibly the word for it)

We need
arguments, which we will get from the above.
Then we need the " united we stand" aura about us.
First when we have the status we deserve, we can "go for it"!

Well, this is the initial thoughts I have and I am sure there are more good ideas out there! :)

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11 years 2 days ago #23 by white_23
i totally agree!!! we have the same standards if not better and our reg is more exspensive than medical nurses but our salary so low!!!

does anyone have any suggestions....?

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11 years 2 days ago #20 by mm21
exactly!!!!!! This is what we should do!

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11 years 2 days ago #19 by MLA
I think the salary here is low compared to many countries.BUT we now need to be a bit more united and work for a difference.;-)

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11 years 2 days ago - 11 years 2 days ago #16 by mm21
I just don't understand why dental nurse salary is so low in the UK compared to Australia and New Zealand considering registration and continuing professional development...... :huh:

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